Logic Over Math

Many people are befuddled when  a great poker player claims he has never used  an equity calculator, such as PokerStove/CardRunnersEV. People often see poker as a game of numbers, a game of probability, a game of inductive logic.  In the end isn’t your decision based on how many hand combos beat you compared to how many hand combos you beat(assuming your only options are calling and folding)?Once you figure the number of combs that beat you and the number of combos that you beat the rest is just an elementary math problem. But we skipped the most important part of the process, how do you figure out how many combos are beating you and how many combos you are beating? This is what we call hand reading :) It’s the most important concept in poker, however, most ppl fail at hand reading. For the most part hand reading is a 4 step process. Step 1: Processing information, Step 2: Interpreting information, Step 3: Adjusting to new information, and Step 4: Remembering  information and adjustments.

Some will fail at processing the information, either they just are not paying attention or lose focus or they are more concerned with the end result rather than the important information their opponent is providing them. Many will be weak at interpreting the information, they process the information, but fail at drawing the correct conclusions. Because they screwed up step 2, this will  automatically lead to poor adjustments. Step 2 and 3 go hand in hand, but  there are ppl that will process and interpret the information correctly, yet still make poor adjustments. They may forget hands or prior information that suggests a counter intuitive adjustment. Which leads me to step 4, remembering information and adjustments. This is more innate rather than something you can improve upon, nonetheless, it is an important part of the hand reading process. I don’t think it will make or break you, but it will turn a good player into a great player.

A little test:

SB:Hero: AcKc
BB: Villain: ??

Hero: Raise 3x, Villain: call

Flop: As-2h-8d
Villain: check Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: call

Turn: 9d
Villain: check Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: Call

River: Kh
Villain: check, Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: raises all-in, Hero: call
Villain shows: 6d7d

Hand 2:

SB: Hero: QcQd
BB: Villain:??

Hero: Raise 3x, Villain: call

Flop: Kd-3c-8s
Villain: check, Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: Raise 3x Hero’s bet, Hero: call

Turn: 5s
Villain: Bet ¾ pot, Hero: calls

River: Qs
Villain: Bet ¾ pot, Hero: call
Villain shows: 9s7s

Did Hero play this hand correctly? If not, what mistakes did Hero make?

Hand 3:

SB Hero: Tc5s
BB: Villain: ??

Pre-flop: Hero: Raise 3x, Villain: call

Flop: Kc-2s-2h
Villain: check, Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: call

Turn: 6s
Villain: check, Hero: check

River: 5h
Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: fold

Villain: Muck

Did Hero play this hand correctly? If not, what mistakes did Hero make?

Hand 4:

SB: Villain: ??
BB: Hero: QcTs

Pre-flop: Villain: Raise 3x, Hero: Call

Flop: Qh-7h-6d
Hero: check, Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: Call

Turn: 2d
Hero: check, Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: Call

River: Jd
Hero: check, Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: call
Villain shows 9s4s

Hand 5:

SB: Villain: ??
BB: 8s7s

Pre-flop: Villain: Raise 3x, Hero: Call

Flop: Ad-8d-3s
Hero: Check, Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: call

Turn: 4s
Hero: check, Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: call

River: Th
Hero: check, Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: Fold

Did Hero play this hand correctly? If not, what mistakes did Hero make?

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4 Comments

  1. ka5321
    Posted May 20, 2012 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    SB:Hero: AcKc
    BB: Villain: ??

    Hero: Raise 3x, Villain: call
    im analyzing the hand from both players perspectives
    Flop: As-2h-8d
    Villain: check Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: call
    heros perspective: standard bet… betting for value vs weaker AX,8X, mid-PP, and unlikely 2X hand range.. villain is going to peel one street and evaluate turn…
    villains hand range: idk, im analyzing this hand in a vacuum. so i dnt have any reads. he could be need villains OOP calling stats to knw his precise hand range. he could be calling with AX, pocket pair, 8X, 2X,sets, 2-pair, gutters:(34,45) banking on implied odds… and he could also be floating, but a weird float OOP, on this dry board
    Turn: 9d
    Villain: check Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: Call
    an interesting card: since the 9(d) brings in both SD+FD combos which villain couldve floated OOP on flop with…
    hands like:67,JQ,TJ, diamond FD,(2X,AX combo draws)
    1)villains hand range: he flats again. which seems odd. since he wouldve raised turn here if he had 2-pair, sets for equity protection vs FD+SD hand range. which he didnt…
    2) idk if he’s the type of player whose capable of semibluff checkraise with FD or SD, so its hard to coin his approximate hand range… this is the key to analyzing the hand, is how villain plays his draws…
    and whether he has a polarized CR range: nuts vs air..
    if he has a polarized CR range, then we could still include FD+SD+weak SDV pairs, and weak AX in his whole hand range, while excluding the nutted hands, whereas, now our AK hand range is beating about all of his total flatting turn hand range

    River: Kh
    Villain: check, Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: raises all-in, Hero: call
    Villain shows: 6d7d
    1) intersting K(h) on the river since, it actually improves our hand range to 2-pair.. now villain jams on us… idk, it basically comes down to combinatorics, and analyzing what we beat and what beats us…
    board texture: A289K

    he could be jamming with: A2,A8,A9,89,9K,8K,2K for value.
    AK is beating all of villains perceived 2-pair value jam, since we have the best 2-pair on board vs any of villains 2-pair hand range, and with us holding AK, its combinatorically less likely villain has AX,KX 2-pair, and more less likely AK specifically…
    its clearly +EV to call here, since alot worse 2-pair is jamming river, and 34,45 gutters, and all SD+FD missed..
    2) set combos: i can exclude AA,KK from his preflop flatting range, since he didnt 3-bet there hands preflop, and i specifically have AK, which makes it less likely that he has AA or KK…

    the likely Sets tht he could have are 88,99,22… but i dont understand his turn line. why doesnt he check raise there for value and equity protection vs SD+FD… i double barreled IP, whereas im repping strength, if he check raised and got the money in on the turn, he is basically jamming while holding max equity, which he didnt ….
    weird line….

    all in all i would call river, and show up +EV in long run, since i would lose to the few times tht he has a set

    Hand 2:

    SB: Hero: QcQd
    BB: Villain:??

    Hero: Raise 3x, Villain: call

    Flop: Kd-3c-8s
    Villain: check, Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: Raise 3x Hero’s bet, Hero: call
    1) ur Flop IP bet is debatable imo… it basically depends on villains check raising frequency. if villain is a person prone to check raise u light on flop, then your better off checking ur QQ IP for pot control, and hope to evaluate a turn card… idk, u just dont want to bloat the pot with one-pair, and second pair on board, so its better to check IP and see a turn card, if villain is aggressive OOP in his CR frequency, since you would be put into alot of test on basically any turn card, except Q, and probably a club, which gives u second nut FD
    Turn: 5s
    Villain: Bet ¾ pot, Hero: calls
    i would fold here In a vacuum vs villain, since im still behind his repped KX hand range, and i really dont want to call 3/4 pot to hit my 2-outer…
    River: Qs
    Villain: Bet ¾ pot, Hero: call
    Villain shows: 9s7s
    idk the river seems like gin for you… i would personally jam here.. not being results oriented,since he has a flush…
    but view his hand in a spectrum.. what could he have here tht includes a made Flush on river…
    hand range:K(s)X(s),3(s)X(s) as a pure bluff hoping for a fold,
    idk if villain would play their A(s)X(s) like that, since his hand has perceived SDV, and theres no value in bloating his hand OOP with just A-high…

    reasoning for jam: value vs KX, the hand range he repped the whole way, and possible 2-pair, set combos, which he wouldve played this way with…
    idk, after learning he could CR light on flop,,, then u should now start to use a polarized c-betting range, thus checking back all SDV hands for pot control, and bet ur nutted hands for value and unutted hands as bluff for fold equity
    Did Hero play this hand correctly? If not, what mistakes did Hero make?

    Hand 3:

    SB Hero: Tc5s
    BB: Villain: ??

    Pre-flop: Hero: Raise 3x, Villain: call

    Flop: Kc-2s-2h
    Villain: check, Hero: Bet 2/3 pot, Villain: call
    i like the bet on flop here, since 22K board is so dry, devoid of likely FD and SD
    in contrast to 889 board, where TJ,67, is still likely continuance range here… 22K is devoid of all possible draws on board, where ur bet is going to take down the pot a fairly high % of the times…..
    Turn: 6s
    Villain: check, Hero: check
    i dont understand why u check here, is it a check to give up… i would still bet here, since villain has a high % of floats OOP here, whereas, it would fold to my turn double barrel…
    what do u expect him to have, 2X… with 2-deuces on board, its combinatorically less likely he has the remaining deuce in hand, and if he has KX, he’s already setting up a check-call all 3-street line… so i would barrel this turn card, and fold river if in fact he calls turn…
    its just ur check here seems so weak, since u would definetly barrel here id u had 2X or KX for value vs villain perceived hand range
    River: 5h
    Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: fold
    FOLD
    Villain: Muck

    Did Hero play this hand correctly? If not, what mistakes did Hero make?

    • BOY
      Posted May 20, 2012 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

      Good analysis overall, you are missing hand 4, so your analysis of hand 5 may change after seeing hand 4. I think you missed some subtle details, but my hand histories were not that great either, especially given they were fake HHs, I could of created better HHs. If there is a next time, I will just use real hhs. Thanks for the reply!

  2. ka5321
    Posted May 20, 2012 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    ill finish my analysis.. i hope others would also comment here

    Hand 5:

    SB: Villain: ??
    BB: 8s7s

    Pre-flop: Villain: Raise 3x, Hero: Call

    Flop: Ad-8d-3s
    Hero: Check, Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: call
    standard call on flop, since villain could be c-betting here IP with 100% of his hand range, whereas, our 8X hand range is beating a fair percentage of his c-betting hand range here
    Turn: 4s
    Hero: check, Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: call
    i would actually fold here..
    whenever u call turn, u should evaluate ur likely turn drawing odds, and hand equity vs villains whole double barrelling range

    i think an important fact here is whether villain is LAG or TAG, since his c-betting, double barrelling frequencies drastically differ from villains stats and style of play. if LAG is double barrelling here, i would be more inclined to call as opposed to a TAG villain, since his double barrelling range seems to be more narrow… and his narrow range more likely is beating ur 8X hand range

    1) 8X: when ur calling turn, what do actually hope to acheieve????
    are u hoping to bank on hitting a 7,8… or in fact u think ur 8X is good here???
    2) if villain is betting 2/3 pots, i would fold, since basically im only chasing 5-outs, and im not getting the good price to chase my hands, even if i factored in implied value of hitting 7X or 8X on the river….
    the call here on turn is -EV in the long run vs nits or TAG…
    but vs LAG, ur basically setting up a call 3-street line. no matter what card comes river, its a call… since A is already the highest 1-pair card out there… and youve already repped strength of calling down 2-streets… If u view this hand through a unbiased viewpoint… its more likely tht u have AX than villain, since its easy to bluff streets, but its hard to continue a hand for 2-streets without anything……..
    basically, i see villains turn c-bet as beign a polarized hand range, and ur 8X is the best bluffcatcher vs his whole hand range
    River: Th
    Hero: check, Villain: Bet 2/3 pot, Hero: Fold

    Did Hero play this hand correctly? If not, what mistakes did Hero make?

  3. ka5321
    Posted May 21, 2012 at 2:37 am | Permalink

    hand history #4 is too standard, its just a hand, where we learn that villain is capable of triple barrel bluffing us… ntohing much to analyze…
    u have TPGK OOP… the most optimal line is to check call down all 3-streets… since, ur beating all of villains bluffs, thus check-call inducing villain to bet IP… while minimizing losses, if in fact villain has u beat with overpair to board, or set,2-pair combos…..

    1) i want to hear ur opinion on what subtle details i missed in ur HH….
    2) can u give ur insights into the hands,

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